The National for February 28, 2019 — Testimony Fallout, Indigenous Child Welfare, At Issue


(*) (*)>>Ian: TONIGHT… THE PLOT THICKENS IN OTTAWA.>>Andrew Scheer: WE DID HEAR FROM THE FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL YESTERDAY, MR. SPEAKER AND NOW WE WANT TO HEAR FROM THE PRIME MINISTER, THE MAN WHO STANDS ACCUSED OF MAJOR POLITICAL INTERFERENCE IN A CRIMINAL CASE.>>Ian: AS ANDREW SCHEER CALLS FOR A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION OF JUSTIN TRIDOE, THE MINISTER’S FORMER TOP AIDE IS READY TO SPEAK HIS TRUTH.>>NOT MANY MOMS LIKE MYSELF KNEW THAT RICE HAD ARSENIC.>>Adrienne: INVESTIGATING A COMMON INGREDIENT IN BABY FOOD, WHAT CANADIAN FAMILIES FAMILIES NEED TO KNOW ABOUT RICE.>>IT WAS JUST NASTINESS, NAME CALLING.>>Ian: AND WHY MEGHAN MARKLE IS THE TARGET OF ONLINE HATE. HOW SOME ARE TRYING TO SHIELD HER.>>>THIS IS “THE NATIONAL.” (*)>>>ONE DAY AFTER JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD GAVE HER BLISTERING ACCOUNT OF BACKROOM LIBERAL POLITICS, THE TRUDEAU GOVERNMENT’S BIGGEST SCANDAL TO DATE HAS TAKEN NEW TWISTS. REMEMBER THE FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL ALLEGED THAT THE PRIME MINISTER AND KEY FIGURES AROUND HIM PUT INAPPROPRIATE PRESSURE ON HER, EVEN USED VEILED THREATS TO DEFER THE CRIMINAL PROSECUTION OF THE QUÉBEC-BASED ENGINEERING GIANT SNC-LAVALIN. THE OPPOSITION SAYS THAT PRESSURE MIGHT ITSELF CONSTITUTE A CRIME. WE’LL HAVE MORE ON THAT IN A MOMENT BUT, FIRST, DAVID COCHRANE STARTS OUR COVERAGE WITH THE GOVERNMENT’S REBUTTAL. [Applause]>>Reporter: THE PRIME MINISTER STARTED THE DAY WANTING TO TALK ABOUT OUTER SPACE. BUT THE QUESTIONS WERE ALL ABOUT EVENTS IN HIS POLITICAL ORBIT.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: THERE ARE DISAGREEMENTS IN PERSPECTIVE ON THIS, BUT I CAN REASSURE CANADIANS THAT WE WERE DOING OUR JOB.>>Reporter: THAT’S THE LIBERAL LINE, “THIS IS ALL A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION.” SO ANOTHER KEY PLAYER WILL TRY TO DRIVE THAT HOME. GERRY BUTTS, THE PRIME MINISTER’S FORMER TOP ADVISOR WHO RESIGNED LAST WEEK, HAS NOW ASKED TO TESTIFY AT THE JUSTICE COMMITTEE. “I BELIEVE MY EVIDENCE WILL BE OF ASSISTANCE… I NEED A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME TO RECEIVE LEGAL ADVICE… TO BE ABLE TO PRODUCE RELEVANT DOCUMENTS TO THE COMMITTEE.” BUT FEATURED PROMINENTLY IN WILSON-RAYBOULD’S VERSION OF EVENTS SHE RECOUNTED A DECEMBER 5th MEETING AT THE CHÂTEAU LAURIER IN OTTAWA.>>I WANTED TO SPEAK ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS BEING, INCLUDING BRINGING UP S.N.C. AND THE BARRAGE OF PEOPLE HOUNDING ME AND MY STAFF. HE SAID, I NEEDED TO FIND A SOLUTION.>>Reporter: LATER, ON DECEMBER 18th, WILSON-RAYBOULD’S CHIEF OF STAFF JESSICA PRINCE MET WITH BUTT’S AND THE PRIME MINISTER’S CHIEF, KATIE TELFORD. A MEETING THAT PRINCE DETAILED TO WILSON-RAYBOULD IN TEXT MESSAGES.>>GERRY SAID, QUOTE, JESS, THERE IS NO SOLUTION HERE THAT DOES NOT INVOLVE SOME INTERFERENCE, END QUOTE.>>Reporter: THE COMMITTEE IS ALSO BRINGING THAT CLERK OF THE PRIVY COUNCIL, MICHAEL WERNICK, CANADA’S TOP CIVIL SERVANT WHO TESTIFIED PREVIOUSLY THAT HE HAD A PHONE CALL WITH WILSON-RAYBOULD ON DECEMBER 19th.>>SO I CAN TELL YOU WITH COMPLETE ASSURANCE THAT MY VIEW OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS IS THAT THEY WERE WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF WHAT IS LAWFUL AND APPROPRIATE.>>Reporter: SHE VIEWED IT QUITE DIFFERENTLY.>>I BELIEVE THAT THERE WERE THREE OCCASIONS IN THAT OCCASION WHERE THERE WAS A VEILED THREAT.>>MR. WERNICK’S TESTIMONY FROM LAST THURSDAY WAS COMPLETELY DEMOLISHED. IF WILSON-RAYBOULD’S VERSION OF EVENTS IS TRUE, MR. WERNICK IS A LIAR.>>Reporter: THE COMMITTEE IS NOT JUST RECALLING WERNICK, IT’S ASKING THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE, NATALIE DROUIN, TO COME BACK AS WELL. SHE TESTIFIED THAT THE CLERK AND HER THEN DEPUTY HAD A PHONE CALL THAT SUGGESTED THAT SHE LOST HER JOB AS JUSTICE MINISTER BECAUSE OF THE STANDOFF WITH THE PRIME MINISTER. THE CALL TOOK PLACE THREE DAYS BEFORE THE CABINET SHUFFLE.>>AS PART OF THIS CONVERSATION THE CLERK TELLS THE DEPUTY THAT ONE OF THE FIRST CONVERSATIONS THAT THE NEW MINISTER WILL BE EXPECTED TO HAVE WITH THE PRIME MINISTER WILL BE ON S.N.C.-LAVALIN.>>Reporter: ALL OF THAT WILL PLAY OUT IN PUBLIC NEXT WEEK WHILE IN PRIVATE THE PRIME MINISTER WILL DECIDE IF WILSON-RAYBOULD CAN STAY IN THE LIBERAL CAUCUS.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: I HAVE — I HAVE TAKEN — TAKEN KNOWLEDGE OF HER TESTIMONY AND THERE’S STILL REFLECTIONS TO HAVE ON NEXT STEPS.>>Ian: DAVID, YOU HAVE DONE SOME DIGGING INTO THOSE “NEXT STEPS.” WHAT ARE YOU HEARING?>>Reporter: CBC NEWS HAS HEARD THAT THE PRIME MINISTER WILL SHUFFLE HIS CABINET ON FRIDAY MORNING, WE KNEW IT WOULD HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THAT VACANCY THAT JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD CREATED WHEN SHE RESIGNED AS MINISTER OF VETERANS’ AFFAIRS AND EVER SINCE THE DEFENCE MINISTER HARJIT SAJJAN HAS BEEN DOING DOUBLE DUTY. BUT WHAT A HIGH LEVEL SOURCE TELLS ME TONIGHT IS THAT THIS WILL BE A SMALL SHUFFLE. ONLY A HANDFUL ARE MOVING TO FILL THAT VACANCY. IF YOU’RE A BACKBENCHER WAITING FOR A PHONE CALL ABOUT A PROMOTION, I HAVE BAD NEWS, NO NEW MINISTER IS GOING INTO CABINET. THIS IS ONLY A SHUFFLE OF EXISTING MINISTERS THAT WILL BE ROLLED OUT TOMORROW. IAN?>>Ian: DAVID, THANK YOU.>>Reporter: YOU’RE WELCOME.>>Ian: ONE BIG QUESTION IN ALL OF THIS — DOES THE PRESSURE ALLEGED BY WILSON-RAYBOULD AMOUNT TO A CRIME? HERE’S KATIE SIMPSON WITH THE LEGAL ARGUMENTS.>>Reporter: THE FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL SAYS FROM HER PERSPECTIVE NO ONE DEALING WITH THE SNC-LAVALIN AFFAIR BROKE THE LAW, BUT NOT EVERYONE AGREES WITH HER LEGAL OPINION. CONSERVATIVE LEADER ANDREW SCHEER IS URGING POLICE TO INVESTIGATE. IN A LETTER TO THE RCMP COMMISSIONER HE OUTLINED TWO SECTIONS OF THE CRIMINAL CODE HE SAYS THAT HAVE BEEN VIOLATED. THE INTENT TO PROVOKE FEAR IN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL. AND THE ATTEMPT TO OBSTRUCT OR DEFEAT THE COURSE OF JUSTICE. TONIGHT FIVE FORMER ATTORNEY GENERALS ECHOED THAT CALL, FOUR CONSERVATIVES AND ONE N.D.P. WROTE THEIR OWN LETTER TO THE COMMISSIONER, SAYING “ORDINARY CANADIANS WHO DO NOT BENEFIT FROM POLITICAL CONNECTIONS, HAVE BEEN CHARGED UNDER THESE SECTIONS WITH MUCH LESS EVIDENCE.”>>I DO THINK THAT THERE’S ENOUGH THERE THAT IT’S NOT AN OUTRAGEOUS ALLEGATION THAT THE RCMP SHOULD AT LEAST LOOK AT IT.>>Reporter: THIS LAWYER SAYS THAT BASED ON WHAT HE’S HEARD SO FAR FROM JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD THAT THE CONCERNS ABOUT OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE APPEAR MOST SIGNIFICANT.>>I THINK THAT THERE’S ENOUGH OF A BASIS FOR AT LEAST AN INVESTIGATION, BECAUSE WHAT HAS HAPPENED COULD SPEAK TO A CONSPIRATORIAL INTENT TO OBSTRUCT JUSTICE, FOR EXAMPLE.>>Reporter: MAKING THAT ARGUMENT IN COURT WOULD BE A DIFFICULT TASK, ACCORDING TO THE HEAD OF THE CANADIAN CIVIL LIBERTIES ASSOCIATION.>>YOU NEED TO HAVE PRIME MINISTER THAT THE PRIME MINISTER INTENDED TO OBSTRUCT JUSTICE AND WE DIDN’T HEAR ANY OF THAT.>>Reporter: THOUGH NOT CRIMINAL, MICHAEL BRYANT SAYS THAT THERE’S BEEN INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVIOUR FROM BOTH SIDES OF THIS STORY.>>THEY SHOULD HAVE STOPPED TRYING TO BEND HER TO THEIR WILL. AT THE SAME TIME, SHE NEEDED TO BE OPEN-MINDED TO THE LEGAL ARGUMENTS AND THE FACTS AND THE EVIDENCE AND SHE CLEARLY WASN’T. SO IT’S A POX ON BOTH THEIR HOUSES.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: TO OUR KNOWLEDGE NO ONE HAS BEEN CONTACTED BY THE RCMP.>>Reporter: THE PRIME MINISTER SUGGESTED TODAY THAT A POLICE INVESTIGATION IS NOT NECESSARY AND THAT THE JUSTICE COMMITTEE AND ETHICS COMMISSIONERS’ PROBES ARE GOOD ENOUGH. OFFICIALS IN THE RCMP ARE REVIEWING ANDREW SCHEER’S LETTER, BUT THEY REFUSE TO CONFIRM OR DENY WHETHER AN INVESTIGATION IS UNDERWAY. KATIE SIMPSON, CBC NEWS, OTTAWA.>>Ian: SO WE HAVE HEARD POLITICAL AND LEGAL INTERPRETATIONS OF ALL OF THIS. WHAT DO POTENTIAL VOTERS THINK? HERE’S A SAMPLE FROM SOME PEOPLE ON THE STREET AND ON LOCAL RADIO, STARTING IN JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD’S OWN RIDING OF VANCOUVER-GRANVILLE.>>I’M UPSET. THE LAW SHOULD BE INDEPENDENT FROM THE POLITICS.>>SHE DEFINITELY SAID, NO, NO LAWS WERE BROKEN. I THINK THAT WE NEED MORE CLARIFICATION FROM ALL PARTIES.>>”WHY DON’T THEY COME RIGHT OUT AND SAY IT, THEY’RE FIGHTING FOR JOBS FOR PEOPLE IN QUÉBEC AND ONTARIO AND THEY COULDN’T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.”>>I THINK IT COULD TURN INTO SOMETHING A LOT BIGGER AND, YEAH, IMPACT THE ELECTION FOR SURE.>>THERE IS A FLAW IN THE SYSTEM THAT YOU CAN HAVE A PARTISAN ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHO’S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE PARTISAN, WHO HAS A MICRO FOLDER… BUT HAS A MINISTER’S POSITION — OF JUSTICE — WHICH IS A MACRO FOLDER. AND WHO’S SUPPOSED TO BE PULLING FOR HER PARTY.>>IT’S UP TO THE PEOPLE TO JUDGE.>>Ian: AND HOW CANADIANS ULTIMATELY JUDGE THIS SCANDAL COULD DEPEND ON A FEW FACTORS — THEIR OWN POLITICS AND THEIR KNOWLEDGE OF THE LAW AND EVEN PERHAPS WHERE THEY LIVE. MUCH HAS BEEN SAID ABOUT THE PRIME MINISTER’S RELATIONSHIP TO MONTRÉAL AND SNC-LAVALIN. ALISON NORTHCOTT EXPLORES “THE VIEW FROM QUÉBEC.”>>Reporter: IN JUSTIN TRUDEAU’S DIVERSE RIDING OF PAPINEAU, OPINIONS VARY OVER THE SNC-LAVALIN SCANDAL.>>ACCORDING TO BE OPEN BOOKS BUT IT SEEMS THAT IT’S NOT SO. I DON’T THINK THAT I’LL VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN.>>I WILL VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN. YES I’M A HUGE VOTER.>>MY OPINION OF THE PRIME MINISTER HAS DIMINISHED A LITTLE BIT.>>I HEAR THOSE THINGS AND PEOPLE ARE TALKING BOTH SIDES SOMETIMES.>>DO YOU BELIEVE ONE VERSION OF EVENTS OVER THE OTHER?>>Reporter: FROM THE BEGINNING SOME QUÉBEC POLITICIANS AND PUNDITS AND MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC HAVE SUPPORTED GIVING SNC-LAVALIN A DEAL.>>WE HAVE HAD HALF ASSERTIONS AND WE’VE HAD DENIALS.>>Reporter: BUT SOME SAY THAT TRUDEAU HAS SIMPLY FAILED TO EXPLAIN TO CANADIANS WHY IT’S SO IMPORTANT TO SAVE THOSE 9,000 JOBS. AND THAT WILSON-RAYBOULD’S TESTIMONY MAKES THINGS WORSE.>>I THINK THAT IT WILL HURT HIM EVERYWHERE IN CANADA AND HURT HIM LESS BECAUSE THERE’S MORE SYMPATHY TOWARDS SNC-LAVALIN BUT I THINK IT WILL HURT HIM HERE TOO.>>Reporter: QUÉBEC’S PREMIER SAYS THAT THE TESTIMONY HAS RAISED QUESTIONS.>>I DON’T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN MR. TRUDEAU AND THE FORMER MINISTER OF JUSTICE. I DON’T KNOW WHAT KIND OF PRESSURE HE PUT.>>Reporter: BUT HE SAYS THAT HIS MAIN CONCERN IS KEEPING THE COMPANY AND ITS JOBS IN QUÉBEC. HIS OWN JUSTICE MINISTER THOUGH HAS GRAVER CONCERNS.>>IT IS TROUBLING BECAUSE I — I VERY DEEPLY BELIEVE IN OUR INSTITUTIONS. I REALLY DEEPLY BELIEVE IN THE RULE OF LAW. AND WITHOUT TAKING SIDES, IF WHAT WAS SAID IS TRUE, IT’S TROUBLING.>>Reporter: SHE SAYS THAT SHE WILL NOT INTERFERE WITH THE DECISIONS MADE BY QUÉBEC’S PUBLIC PROSECUTORS FOR SNC-LAVALIN OR ANY FILE.>>[Speaking French]>>Reporter: MEANWHILE MANY, LIKE THIS WOMAN, FEEL CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A COMPLICATED STORY AND ARE WAITING FOR CLARITY. ALISON NORTHCOTT, CBC NEWS, MONTRÉAL.>>Ian: AND WITH SUCH A COMPLICATED STORY WE WANTED TO FIND OUT WHAT YOU WANTED TO KNOW AND YOU DIDN’T HOLD BACK. SO WE’RE GOING TO TRY TO GET ANSWERS TO ALL OF THOSE QUESTIONS.>>Reporter: WHAT DOES TRUDEAU HAVE TO DO TO GET PAST THIS SNC-LAVALIN FIASCO?>>YOU THINK THIS WILL REGISTER WITH THE AVERAGE VOTER IN THE UPCOMING ELECTION?>>WHY HAS SHE NOT RESIGNED FROM THE LIBERAL CAUCUS?>>Ian: ANDREW, CHANTAL AND PAUL WILL TACKLE YOUR QUESTIONS. WE HAVE ANOTHER SPECIAL “AT ISSUE” COMING UP.>>>LET’S GO TO TORONTO NOW AND, ADRIENNE, YOU’RE LOOKING AT A STORY THAT THE GOVERNMENT WANTED TO TALK ABOUT TODAY?>>Adrienne: YEAH, IAN, SAFE TO SAY WITH EVERYTHING GOING ON THIS WEEK, THE LIBERALS WERE VERY HAPPY TO CLAIM A WIN.>>TO CELEBRATE THIS MOMENT, THE INTRODUCTION OF BILL C-92. WE HAVE FINALLY ARRIVED AT THIS HISTORIC DAY.>>Adrienne: OKAY, SELF-CONGRATULATIONS ASIDE, BILL C-92 WOULD COMPLETELY OVERHAUL INDIGENOUS CHILD WELFARE, EFFECTIVELY TURNING IT OVER TO INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES THEMSELVES AND PLEDGING NEW FUNDING. THE GOVERNMENT NOTED THAT WHILE ONLY 7% OF CANADA’S CHILDREN ARE INDIGENOUS, THEY REPRESENT MORE THAN HALF OF THE COUNTRY’S CHILDREN IN FOSTER CARE. SOMETHING THAT THE BILL, BACKED FWIEFORT NATIONS LEADERS, AIMS TO CHANGE. FOR MANY INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, THE CHANGES CANNOT COME FAST ENOUGH, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHOSE LIVES HAVE BEEN SHAPED BY THE OLD SYSTEM. BUT AS OLIVIA STEFANOVICH TELLS US, THEY ARE WARY OF WHAT MAY HAPPEN NEXT.>>MEG WITCH.>>Reporter: SHE RELIES ON AN APP TO TEACH HER SON CREE. AN OPPORTUNITY THAT SHE DIDN’T HAVE GROWING UP IN THE CHILD WELFARE SYSTEM.>>IT WASN’T TAUGHT TO ME AND IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AND I WISH IT WAS SO NOW I TRY TO GIVE THAT TO MY SON WITHOUT REALLY KNOWING IT MYSELF.>>Reporter: SHE LOST MORE THAN HER LANGUAGE AND A SENSE OF CULTURE — SHE’S TRYING TO REGAIN HER FAITH IN OTHERS.>>IT WAS ISOLATING AND I QUESTIONED A LOT.>>Reporter: HER EXPERIENCE WITH CHILD WELFARE IS MULTIGENERATIONAL. SHE ALMOST LOST CUSTODY OF HER SON AS WELL WHEN HE WAS STAYING WITH HIS DAD WHO DIED OF AN OVERDOSE.>>I NEEDED TO COME AND FIGHT FOR HIM. SO WHEN I DID THE FIRST INITIAL MEETINGS WERE AWFUL. IT WAS VERY — LIKE, GUILT SHAMING WHEN I HAD BEEN IN SHOCK MYSELF.>>Reporter: SHE BELIEVES THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT IF HER FIRST NATION HAD BEEN IN CONTROL. THAT’S THE GOAL BEHIND THE NEW FEDERAL LEGISLATION. IT SEEKS TO KEEP CHILDREN AND YOUTH WITH THEIR FAMILIES AND IN THEIR COMMUNITIES.>>I’M HOPING THAT THIS NEW LEGISLATION WILL HELP THAT NOT HAPPEN TO ANYBODY ELSE.>>Reporter: HER EXPECTATIONS ARE HIGH. SO TOO ARE MIRANDA EGGERSON’S, A FRIEND WHO SPENT YEARS BOUNCING THROUGH THE SYSTEM.>>IT’S A FIGHT TO FEEL SECURE EVERY DAY.>>Reporter: SHE HAS MANY QUESTIONS ABOUT BILL C-92.>>IT DOES SOUND HOPEFUL, BUT LIKE HOW MANY TIMES HAVE PEOPLE HEARD STUFF LIKE THIS?>>Reporter: CAUTIOUSLY THEY WAIT TO SEE CHANGES. BUT WITH JUST 10 WEEKS LEFT BEFORE THE HOUSE BREAKS FOR SUMMER AND A LOOMING FEDERAL ELECTION, POLITICIANS HAVE LITTLE TIME TO SPARE TO PUSH THROUGH THIS MAJOR REFORM. OLIVIA STEFANOVICH, CBC NEWS, OTTAWA.>>Adrienne: NOW SOME ADVOCATES ALSO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT HOW FUNDING WILL WORK UNDER THIS NEW ARRANGEMENT. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT STILL HAS TO SORT THAT OUT WITH THE PROVINCES.>>>OVERSEAS NOW AND TO THE BIG NUCLEAR SUMMIT THAT JUST FIZZLED. DONALD TRUMP AND KIM JONG-un SEEMINGLY WENT TO VIETNAM TO MAKE A DEAL, THEY EVEN SCHEDULED IN A SIGNING CEREMONY AND INSTEAD IT ALL FELL APART. NOW EACH SIDE BLAMES THE OTHER BUT WHILE THERE’S DISAGREEMENT OVER THE DEGREE OF RESPONSIBILITY, AS PAUL HUNTER TELLS US, SANCTIONS WERE THE STICKING POINT.>>Reporter: BOTTOM LINE — AS DONALD TRUMP LEFT VIETNAM THIS MORNING IT WAS WITHOUT AN AGREEMENT. DESPITE EARLIER OPTIMISM, NO DEAL ON DE-NUCLEARIZATION WITH NORTH KOREA’S KIM JONG-un.>>President Donald Trump: BASICALLY THEY WANTED THE SANCTIONS LIFTED IN THEIR ENTIRETY AND WE COULDN’T DO THAT.>>Reporter: BARELY HAD TRUMP GIVEN HIS VERSION WHEN NORTH KOREA COUNTERED “NOT TRUE.” ITS VIEW — NORTH KOREA OFFERED TO SHUDDER ITS MAIN NUCLEAR COMPLEX IF SANCTIONS WERE TO BE MERELY EASED. WHATEVER THE TRUTH ON WHY IT ALL FELL APART, SAID TRUMP…>>President Donald Trump: SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO WALK AND THIS WAS JUST ONE OF THOSE TIMES.>>Reporter: BACK IN THE U.S. WHERE SOME HAD WORRIED THAT TRUMP MIGHT GIVE TOO MUCH IN HIS EAGERNESS FOR A DEAL, A THUMBS UP, EVEN FROM TOP DEMOCRAT NANCY PELOSI.>>I’M GLAD THAT THE PRESIDENT WALKED AWAY FROM IT.>>Reporter: BUT KIM GOT THIS MUCH — ENGAGEMENT WITH A U.S. PRESIDENT FOR ALL OF THE WORLD TO SEE. HE EVEN TOOK A REPORTER’S QUESTION BEFORE IT ALL BROKE DOWN. MIGHT HE ALLOW AN OFFICIAL U.S. OFFICE IN NORTH KOREA?>>[speaking foreign language] (Voice of Translator): WELL, I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING WHICH IS WELCOMABLE.>>Reporter: SO DID KIM COME AWAY A WINNER ANYWAY, SIMPLY BECAUSE OF OPTICS LIKE THIS?>>THOSE ARE CERTAINLY BENEFITS FOR HIM.>>Reporter: SAYS OBAMA-ERA DIPLOMAT AND A KOREAN EXPERT, MINARA OBA, TRUTH IS THAT KIM WANTED A DEAL, AND LIKE TRUMP, HE ENDED UP WITHOUT ONE.>>WHILE THAT WON’T BE ADVERTISED TO THE NORTH KOREAN PEOPLE, PERHAPS IT WILL WEAKEN HIS POSITION A LITTLE WITH ELITES IN PYONGYANG.>>Reporter: THE KEY QUESTION, WHERE DOES THIS GO FROM HERE? AFTER ALL OF THE TALK OF MAKING HISTORY, THEY DIDN’T. THE U.S. SAID TODAY THERE COULD BE MORE MEETINGS BUT NONE ARE PLANNED. PAUL HUNTER, CBC NEWS, WASHINGTON.>>Ian: HERE’S SOME OF THE OTHER STORIES THAT WE’RE WATCHING TONIGHT…>>>A MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT CANADA’S SPACE STRATEGY. THE PRIME MINISTER UNVEILED IT AT THE SPACE AGENCY HEADQUARTERS IN QUÉBEC.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: CANADA IS GOING TO THE MOON.>>Ian: THIS COUNTRY WILL BE PART OF NASA’S NEW LUNAR GATEWAY PROJECT, AN OUTPOST THAT WILL ORBIT THE MOON AND ALLOW ASTRONAUTS TO CONDUCT LUNAR EXPEDITIONS. CANADA WILL BE DEVELOPING A ROBOTIC SYSTEM TO BE KNOWN AS CANARM3, IT WILL REPAIR AND MAINTAIN THE OUTPOST. THIS IS LARGEST INITIATIVE FOR CANADA’S SPACE PROGRAMME IN MORE THAN A DECADE, INJECTING SOME $2 BILLION INTO THE SPACE SECTOR OVER 24 YEARS.>>[speaking foreign language].>>Ian: ISRAEL’S PRIME MINISTER DISS MISSED ALLEGATIONS OF WRONGDOING AND VOWED TO STAY IN OFFICE AFTER THE COUNTRY’S ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID THAT HE WILL INDICT BENJAMIN NETANYAHU. THE CHARGES INCLUDE BRIBERY, FRAUD AND BREACH OF TRUST. IF A COURT DOESN’T STOP THE PROCEEDING IT WILL MARK THE FIRST TIME THAT A SITTING ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH A CRIME. THE COUNTRY’S GENERAL ELECTION IS SET FOR APRIL 9th.>>THERE’S NOT MUCH THAT I CAN SAY OTHER THAN IT WAS VERY PRODUCTIVE. AS I SAID I’M COMMITTED TO TELLING THE TRUTH.>>Ian: AND MICHAEL COHEN, U.S. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP’S FORMER PERSONAL LAWYER, WILL HAVE ANOTHER CHANCE TO DO THAT. AFTER A CLOSED DOOR SESSION TODAY HE’LL RETURN NEXT WEDNESDAY TO FINISH TESTIFYING IN FRONT OF THE U.S. HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE. IT’S LOOKING INTO THE RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 U.S. ELECTION.>>Adrienne: AHEAD TONIGHT… WHY IS MEGHAN MARKLE THE TARGET OF SO MUCH HATRED ONLINE?>>Ian: AND “AT ISSUE” IS HERE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT THE SNC-LAVALIN STORY.>>Adrienne: FIRST, A CBC “MARKETPLACE” INVESTIGATION, WHAT IS REALLY IN THE BABY FOOD.>>I THINK THAT IT’S SURPRISING BECAUSE NOT A LOT OF MOMS OUT THERE SUCH AS MYSELF KNEW THAT RICE HAD ARSENIC. (*)>>WOW, THAT’S SCARY. TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.>>Adrienne: THIS WEEK IN A JOINT INVESTIGATION, “MARKETPLACE” AND RADIO-CANADA TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT WHAT YOU’RE FEEDING YOUR BABY.>>OUR INTENT AS MOTHERS IS TO PROVIDE OUR BABIES WITH GOOD, WHOLESOME FOODS THAT ARE GOING TO HELP THEIR DEVELOPMENT AND GROWTH.>>Adrienne: SO THE TEAM TESTED POPULAR INFANT CEREALS AND SNACKS AND FOUND HIGHER LEVELS OF ONE PARTICULAR TOXIN LURKING IN THE MIX AND AS WE HEAR FROM MAKDA GHEBRESLASSIE, A POPULAR GRAIN MIGHT JUST BE THE SOURCE.>>Reporter: THESE BABIES HAVE WORKED UP QUITE THE APPETITE. AS FOR WHAT THEY’RE EATING, THERE’S A LOST OF OPTIONS.>>WE STARTED WITH RICE CEREAL BECAUSE THE PAEDIATRICIAN RECOMMEND THE RICE CEREAL.>>HE LIKES TO SNACK.>>RICE CEREAL FIRST AT FIVE MONTHS.>>Reporter: IT TURNS OUT THAT THERE’S SOMETHING ELSE IN THE MIX. ARSENIC. IT’S A NATURALLY OCCURRING TOXIN THAT IS IN THE WATER AND SOIL. IT CAN ALSO COME FROM INDUSTRIAL AND AGRICULTURAL RUN-OFF. THE MOST TOXIC KIND IS CALLED INORGANIC ARSENIC. RESEARCH SHOWS THAT RICE ABSORBS MORE ARSENIC THAN OTHER GRAINS AND RICE IS ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR GRAINS IN BABY FOOD. SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR BABY FOOD? “MARKETPLACE” DID SEVERAL TESTS ON SEVEN KINDS OF INFANT CEREAL AND SEVEN SNACKS AND WE FOUND THAT RICE PRODUCT HIS THE HIGHEST ARSENIC. BABY GOURMET CRIMEY RICE CEREAL AND P.C. ORGANIC PUFFS HAD THE HIGHEST IN OUR TESTS. BOTH ARE CANADIAN COMPANIES.>>I THINK THAT IT’S SURPRISING BECAUSE NOT A LOT OF MOMS OUT THERE SUCH AS MYSELF KNEW THAT RICE HAD ARSENIC.>>Reporter: RESEARCH HAS LINKED ARSENIC TO AN INCREASED RISK OF CANCER OVER TIME AND MIGHT AFFECT A CHILD’S NEURO-COGNITIVE DEVELOPMENT. TAKING ACTION, EUROPE SET A LEGAL LIMIT FOR INORGANIC ARSENIC IN BABY FOOD OF 100 PARTS PER BILLION. OUR TESTS SHOW THAT BABY GOURMET CREAMY BROWN RICE HAD 125 PARTS PER BILLION AND P.C. ORGANIC PUFFS HAD AROUND 170. HE’S ONE OF THE LEADING ARSENIC EXPERTS.>>I DO NOT RECOMMEND TO GIVE CHILDREN SUCH HIGH LEVELS OF ARSENIC IN THEM.>>Reporter: HE SAYS THAT THESE WOULD BE ILLEGAL IN EUROPE. HOWEVER, THEY’RE ON STORE SHELVES ACROSS CANADA. HERE THERE ARE NO SET LIMITS FOR ARSENIC IN BABY FOOD. HEALTH CANADA SAYS THAT IT’S BEEN LOOKING AT ARSENIC IN FOOD AND DRINKS FOR 10 YEARS BUT ONLY NOW IS IT LOOKING AT SETTING LIMITS ON RICE PRODUCTS, INCLUDING THOSE FOR CHILDREN. TESTING THESE TWO PRODUCTS WILL BE PART OF THE PROCESS.>>IF WE FIND THAT THEY’RE CONSISTENTLY HIGH WE DO A HEALTH RISK ASSESSMENT AND WE CAN DO A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT THINGS. ALL THE WAY TO TAKING IT OFF THE MARKET IF NEED BE IF THERE’S A RISK THERE.>>Reporter: AS FOR THE OTHER PRODUCTS THAT WE TESTED THEY ALL FELL BELOW THE E.U. LIMIT. WE SHARED OUR RESULTS WITH BABY GOURMET AND P.C. ORGANICS AND THEY PROVIDED STATEMENTS. BABY GOURMET SAID THAT ITS TEAM “IS CURRENTLY REVIEWING THE NEW INFORMATION PROVIDED TO US BY CBC MARKETPLACE AS THE STANDARDS USED IN SOME COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD, DIFFER FROM THE CANADIAN GUIDELINES WE FOLLOW.” MEANWHILE P.C. ORGANICS, WHICH IS OWNED BY LOBLAWS, ASSURES ITS CUSTOMERS THAT ITS PRODUCTS ARE SAFE BUT IT’S COMMITTING TO REDUCING THE ARSENIC. WE ARE WORKING WITH OUR SUPPLIERS TO MINIMIZE THESE TRACE LEVELS AND WE WILL USE EUROPEAN STANDARDS AS OUR GUIDE. MAKDA GHEBRESLASSIE, CBC NEWS, TORONTO.>>Adrienne: SO YOU MIGHT NOW BE WONDERING WHAT ABOUT THE RICE THAT WE ALL EAT? WELL, HIGHER LEVELS OF ARSENIC ARE FOUND IN THAT TOO BUT THERE’S A COUPLE THINGS TO DO TO REDUCE YOUR EXPOSURE. APPARENTLY TRY RIPING YOUR RICE REALLY WELL AND COOKING IT IN A LOT OF WATER, KIND OF LIKE PASTA. U.S. FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION SAYS THAT USING 10 PARTS WATER TO ONE PART RICE CAN REDUCE ARSENIC CONTENT BY ABOUT 60%. ANOTHER TIP TO SWITCH THINGS UP AND ADD LOWER ARSENIC GRAINS INTO YOUR DIET LIKE QUINOA AND BULGUR AND FARRO. YOU CAN WATCH THE FULL “MARKETPLACE” INVESTIGATION TOMORROW NIGHT ON C BEFORE C TELEVISION STARTING AT 8:00 p.m., 8:30 IN NEWFOUNDLAND.>>Ian: STRAIGHT AHEAD, YOU SENT US YOUR QUESTIONS ON THE SNC-LAVALIN CONTROVERSY. “AT ISSUE” WILL ANSWER SOME OF THEM NEXT.>>Adrienne: AND A LITTLE LATER, BULLYING THE DUCHESS OF SUSSEX. WE’LL LOOK AT WHO IS REALLY BEHIND THE ONLINE VITRIOL AIMED AT MEGHAN MARKLE.>>THERE’S BEEN NO SHORTAGE OF NEGATIVE THINGS THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING. THERE’S JUST A LOT (*)>>THERE WAS A SUSTAINED, UM, EFFORT AND ATTEMPT TO POLITICALLY INTERFERE WITH MY DISCRETION.>>The Hon. Bill Morneau: SHE APPROACHED ME IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS TO INFORM ME THAT MY STAFF WAS SPEAKING TO MY HOUSE WHICH I THINK IS ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE.>>WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS TO GET TO THE TRUTH AND THAT’S WHAT A PUBLIC INQUIRY WILL DO.>>Andrew Scheer: HE STANDS ACCUSED OF CRIMINAL INTERFERENCE IN A CRIMINAL CASE.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: THERE IS A PROCESS, BOTH AT THE JUSTICE COMMITTEE AND, INDEED, AT THE ETHICS COMMISSIONER, THAT WILL MAKE A DETERMINATION ON WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED HERE.>>Ian: SO AS YOU HEARD, VARIOUS PEOPLE ARE STICKING TO THEIR INTERPRETATION OF WHAT HAPPENED THERE AND THE OPPOSITION HAS MORE QUESTIONS. SO WHAT IS NEXT IN THE SNC-LAVALIN CONTROVERSY AND HOW DO PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY FEEL? WE’LL PUT SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS TO THE “AT ISSUE” PANEL. CHANTAL HEBERT IS IN MONTRÉAL. AND ANDREW COYNE IS IN TORONTO. AND PAUL WELLS IS ALSO IN TORONTO. SO WE’VE HAD A LITTLE MORE THAN 24 HOURS SINCE THE TESTIMONY YESTERDAY. THERE HAD BEEN NEW DEVELOPMENTS, BUT NOW THAT WE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF A CHANCE TO KIND OF SIT BACK AND LISTEN AND WATCH, I WANT TO GET A SENSE OF HOW YOU FEEL THAT THINGS ARE PLAYING OUT TONIGHT. AND, PAUL, LET’S BEGIN WITH YOU.>>WELL, LAST NIGHT I’M TOLD SOCIAL MEDIA TO HAVE PEOPLE SAY THAT THE LIBERAL PARTY WILL FALL APART, THEY’LL FALL ON JUSTIN TRUDEAU. IT’S OPEN WARFARE. THAT HASN’T HAPPENED. THE LIBERAL ANTIBODIES IN THE EARLY GOING ARE KICKING IN HOW THEY NORMALLY DO. PARTISAN IS GOING PARTISAN. IN AN ELECTION YEAR THEY’LL BE QUICK TO REMIND THEMSELVES THAT THE ALTERNATIVE TO JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS NOT MINISTER FREELAND OR SOME IMAGINARY EVEN BETTER LIBERAL LEADER — IT’S ANDREW SCHEER. AND THEY DON’T REALLY LIKE ANDREW SCHEER. THEY FIGURE — THEY HAVE CONVINCED THEMSELVES THAT HE IS DANGEROUS FOR THE COUNTRY. SO WHAT WILL THEY DO IN RESPONSE? I’M GIVEN TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY’RE GOING TO NOW ATTACK JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD’S CREDIBILITY. THAT IS NOT WHAT I WOULD ADVISE THEM TO DO. I EXPECT THAT IT WILL BE HARDER THAN THEY THINK THAT IT WILL BE. AND IT WILL — IT WILL SERVE UP THE SPECTACLE OF THE LIBERALS ATTACKING LIBERALS THEY HAVE SO FAR SPENT 36 HOURS AVOIDING.>>Ian: CHANTAL?>>I ALSO THINK — AND I DID SEE THE SAME THING ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND IN EMAILS, THE LIBERAL REFLEX KICKING UP. SOMEONE ASKED, DO YOU THINK OR DON’T YOU THINK THAT THERE WILL BE A PUSH AND THEY WILL REPLACE JUSTIN TRUDEAU? AND I SEE NO EVIDENCE OF THAT HAPPENING. BUT I STILL THINK THAT MANY CANADIANS, INCLUDING A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO VOTED LIBERAL IN 2015 EXPECT MORE FROM THE PRIME MINISTER THAN WHAT THEY’VE BEEN SEEING SO FAR — SNIPPETS HERE AND THERE AS HE’S DOING OTHER THINGS. AND HIS FORMER PRINCIPAL SECRETARY TODAY HAS ASKED AND WILL BE TESTIFYING IN FRONT OF THE JUSTICE COMMITTEE. AND THAT’S ALL FINE, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY TO RESPOND TO A SITTING OR A FORMER SITTING MINISTER, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO HEAR JUSTIN TRUDEAU AND NOT JUST SAYING THAT THERE’S NOTHING TO THIS AND THERE’S A PROCESS IN PLACE.>>Ian: ANDREW, LAST NIGHT ON “AT ISSUE” AND ALSO IN YOUR OPINION PIECE, YOU’RE VERY STRONG ON THE FACT THAT YOU FELT THAT WILSON-RAYBOULD’S TESTIMONY SPOKE TO A REAL PROBLEM — A CRISIS FOR THE GOVERNMENT. YOUR THOUGHTS TONIGHT?>>WELL, I WASN’T THE ONLY ONE, I GUESS THAT’S THE POINT. SHE HAS CLEARLY MOVED THE NEEDLE ON THIS. PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HAVE PRIESTLY — PREVIOUSLY BEEN MORE SYMPATHETIC TO THE GOVERNMENT’S LINE OR MORE SKEPTICAL TO HER COMPLAINTS I THINK — IF YOU LOOK AT MANY OF THE COLUMNISTS, PEOPLE MOVED OFF THAT POSITION AND FINDING HER CREDIBLE. BECAUSE OF HER OWN DEMEANOUR AND CREDIBILITY BUT BECAUSE OF THE DOCUMENTATION THAT SHE BROUGHT TO THE TABLE AS WELL. SO IT IS NOT GOING TO BE SUFFICIENT. IT IS CLEARLY NOT SUFFICIENT FOR THE PRIME MINISTER TO CONTINUE WITH THE LINE THAT HE’S TAKEN ALL ALONG THIS OF BLANKET DENIALS OR HALF-DENIALS OR NON-DENIAL DENIALS. THEY DON’T ACTUALLY GET AT THE NUB OF THIS. IT’S OBVIOUSLY WAY TOO SOON TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE PRIME MINISTER RESIGNING OR BEING A COUP WITHIN THE PARTY. BUT IT’S ALSO WAY TOO LATE FOR THEM TO BE COMING MUCH FURTHER THAN THEY HAVE, AND HAVING MUCH MORE TRANSPARENCY. AS I SAID BEFORE WE NEED TO HEAR ALL OF THE PRINCIPAL PLAYERS IN THIS, ALL OF THE MAIN PEOPLE NAMED IN WILSON-RAYBOULD’S TESTIMONY, NEED TO MAKE THEIR OWN TESTIMONY. SO IT’S GREAT TO SEE GERRY BUTTS COMING FORWARD. I THINK WE NEED TO HEAR FROM ALL OF THEM.>>Ian: NOW ANDREW SCHEER, THE OPPOSITION LEADER, LAST NIGHT SAID THAT THE PRIME MINISTER SHOULD RESIGN. TODAY HE UPPED THE ANTE BY SENDING A LETTER TO THE RCMP AND SAYING THAT THERE OUGHT TO BE A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. ANDREW, IS THAT REASONABLE? OR DOES THAT GO TOO FAR, DO YOU THINK?>>IT’S NOT UNREASONABLE IN ITSELF. IT IS NOT ENTIRELY CLEAR, TO MY THOUGHT, ANYWAY, TO THE DEGREE THAT I TALK TO OTHER LAWYERS AND READ OTHER LAWYERS. IT’S UNLIKELY TO RISE TO THE LEVEL OF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE BUT IT’S NOT ENTIRELY CLEAR THAT IT DOESN’T. SO THAT’S SOMETHING THAT THE RCMP CAN FIGURE OUT WELL ENOUGH ON THEIR OWN. I DON’T THINK THEY NECESSARILY NEED ADVICE FROM THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION OR ANYBODY ELSE. SO THAT’S MOSTLY A STUNT ON ANDREW SCHEER’S PART AS WAS THE DEMAND FOR THE PRIME MINISTER TO RESIGN TODAY. I MEAN, WE NEED TO HEAR FROM ALL SIDES ON THIS. MISS WILSON-RAYBOULD MADE A VERY COMPELLING TESTIMONY, BUT THE PEOPLE WHO SHE ACCUSED DESERVE THEIR DAY IN COURT AND THEIR CHANCE TO REBUTT THAT BUT THEY’VE GOT TO STEP FORWARD. AND THE RCMP WILL DO WHAT THEY’RE GOING TO DO AND WE’LL JUST HAVE TO SEE.>>WELL, I NOTE THAT NEITHER OF THE MAIN OPPOSITION PARTIES IS CALLING FOR AN ELECTION TO ALLOW CANADIANS TO PASS JUDGMENT ON EVERYTHING THAT IS BEING PUT TO THEM. THEY COULD. AND I SUSPECT THE ONLY WAY THAT THERE WILL BE CLOSURE ON THIS IS BY JUSTIN TRUDEAU RESTORING HIS MORAL AUTHORITY BY WINNING ANOTHER MANDATE OR SOMEONE ELSE ASSUMING POWER. I SUSPECT THAT THE REASON THAT NO ONE IS CALLING FOR THAT, AND INSTEAD CALLING FOR THE IMPOSSIBLE TO OBTAIN THE PRIME MINISTERIAL RESIGNATION IS BECAUSE NEITHER OF THE OPPOSITION PARTY IS GAME TO GO TO AN ELECTION BETWEEN NOW AND THE END OF APRIL.>>Ian: SO WE PUT THE CALL OUT YESTERDAY FOR PEOPLE TO TELL US IF THEY HAVE QUESTIONS. AND WE GOT AN UNUSUAL NUMBER OF RESPONSES. AND AMONG THOSE RESPONSES A LOT OF THOUGHTFUL QUESTIONS. WE’RE GOING TO PLAY SOME OF THOSE NOW AND LET’S START WITH WHAT KEVIN WHYTE ASKED…>>GIVEN THE PROSPECT OF SNC-LAVALIN BEING BANNED FROM BIDDING ON GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS AND POTENTIALLY FAILING OR MOVING OVERSEAS, REALISTICALLY HAD ANY OTHER POLITICAL PARTY BEEN IN POWER, WOULD THEY HAVE DONE THINGS ANY DIFFERENTLY?>>Ian: SO, PAUL, THE CURTAIN HERE WAS RAISED. WE GOT TO HEAR ABOUT INTERACTIONS BETWEEN CABINET MINISTERS AND SENIOR STAFF THAT MAYBE WE DON’T ALWAYS HEAR. AND SO A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WONDERING, MAYBE THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS AND THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT WE’RE GETTING TO HEAR ABOUT IT IN THIS ONE PARTICULAR CASE?>>SO I SPENT A LARGE PART OF THE DAY TRYING TO DECIDE WHETHER IT’S NAIVE OF ME TO THINK THAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE WHILE JUSTIN TRUDEAU WAS SENDING STAFFERS IN WAVES TO TELL JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD THIS WAS ABOUT JOBS, THIS WAS ABOUT ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL REALITY, THAT MAYBE SOMEBODY COULD HAVE TOLD CANADIANS THAT. BECAUSE THE ONLY GLIMPSE THAT CANADIANS HAD THIS WAS COMING DOWN THE PIKE WAS ONE PARAGRAPH ON PAGE 202 OF LAST SPRING’S FEDERAL BUDGET. AND WHAT IT SAID WAS THAT WE’RE GOING TO GET TOUGHER ON CORPORATE WRONG-DOERS, WE’RE GOING TO INCREASE THEIR ACCOUNTABILITY. NOT THAT WE’LL SERVE UP A LAST-MINUTE CHANGE TO THE CRIMINAL CODE THAT SNC-LAVALIN HAS SPENT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS BEGGING US TO IMPLEMENT. IF THEY WERE SO ALL-FIRED REALISTIC ABOUT THINGS, THEY FORGOT TO TELL CANADIANS. AND THAT’S — THAT’S THE THING BE THAT I’M GETTING ANGRIER ABOUT AS THE DAY GOES ON.>>Ian: CHANTAL, ARE YOU GETTING ANGRY?>>I DON’T DO THE ANGRY THING. [laughter] IT GETS IN THE WAY OF THINKING I FIND. BUT I THINK THAT ANY RESPONSIBLE GOVERNMENT OF ANY PARTY WOULD HAVE TRIED TO SEE WHETHER IT COULD MITIGATE DAMAGE TO A MAJOR EMPLOYER THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR 9,000 JOBS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. ONLY HALF OF THEM IN QUÉBEC, FOR THE RECORD. I DON’T KNOW THAT THEY WOULD HAVE PROCEEDED THE SAME WAY. PAUL IS QUITE RIGHT, THAT PROCESS WAS CONVOLUTED, BUT THE OPPOSITION PARTIES COULD ALSO HAVE RUNG ALARM BELLS. IT WAS NOT TOTALLY HIDDEN. AND I DON’T THINK THAT EITHER THE CONSERVATIVES NOR THE N.D.P. REALLY WANTED TO HAVE A FIGHT WITH THE LIBERALS OVER SNC-LAVALIN. THIS IS A RESULT OF CIRCUMSTANCES AND PERSONALITIES, MORE SO THAN THE OPPOSITION LOOKING FOR EVIDENCE OF SOMETHING HAPPENING WITH SNC-LAVALIN THAT THEY WANTED TO FIGHT OVER.>>WHAT I HOPE WILL COME OUT OF THIS IS THAT THIS WILL REINFORCE WHAT OUGHT TO HAVE BEEN A SOLID TABOO THAT YOU DON’T GO MESSING WITH THE INDEPENDENCE OF AN ATTORNEY GENERAL OR WITH THE PROSECUTORIAL DISCRETION OF INDEPENDENT PROSECUTORS. THAT’S WHY THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS WAS PUT INTO LAW WAS TO BE INDEPENDENT. TO TO THE EXTENT THAT ANYBODY IS CONTEMPLATING THAT, I HOPE THIS EPISODE WILL STOP THEM FROM DOING SO. BUT, LOOK, THE PREMISE THIS WOULD LEAD TO THE COLLAPSE OF SNC-LAVALIN SHOULD BE VIEWED WITH A GREAT DEAL OF SKEPTICISM. I THINK THIS HAD TO DO WITH INCREASING THE BARGAINING POSITION VIS-A-VIS THE PROSECUTORS AND A LOT MORE TO DO WITH WHERE THE HEADQUARTERS WOULD BE LOACTED, AND THESE KIND OF POLITICAL QUESTIONS AND NOT THESE KIND OF APOCALYPTIC SCENARIOS THAT THE WHOLE COMPANY GOES UNDER.>>Ian: I WANT TO MOVE ON TO JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD BECAUSE I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT HER, HER STRATEGIES AND HER MOTIVES. HERE’S A QUESTION FROM ALEX THOMPSON…>>WITH ALL THAT JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD HAS GONE THROUGH UP TO THIS POINT, INCLUDING HER SEEMING LOSS OF CONFIDENCE WITH THE P.M., WHY HAS SHE NOT RESIGNED AS A MEMBER OF THE LIBERAL CAUCUS?>>Ian: WHO WANTS TO ANSWER THAT, ANDREW?>>WHY SHOULD SHE? THAT’S NOT — YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE A PAID UP BELIEVER IN THE PRIME MINISTER’S LEADERSHIP AND IN THE PARTICULAR CONDUCT OF PEOPLE AROUND HIM TO BE A MEMBER OF THE LIBERAL PARTY. SHE WAS ELECTED AS A LIBERAL. I WOULD SAY THAT IS MUCH MORE TO DO WITH WHAT HER RIDING ASSOCIATION AND HER ELECTORS BELIEVE, THAN WHETHER OR NOT SHE’S ON THE SAME PAGE OF THE PRIME MINISTER WITH ANY GIVEN ISSUE.>>Ian: SO, PAUL, ANOTHER VERSION OF THAT QUESTION THAT WE SAW A LOT OF FROM VIEWERS WAS, IF JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD HAD NOT BEEN DEMOTED OR, YOU KNOW, HER CABINET POSITION HADN’T CHANGED, MAYBE THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE BECOME PUBLIC. SO SHOULD WE LOOK AT THIS WITH ANY KIND OF CYNICISM IN TERMS OF HER MOTIVE?>>I DON’T THINK THAT YOU NEED JODY WILSON-RAYBOULD TO BE THE PUREST HERO IN THE HISTORY OF CANADIAN POLITICS TO BELIEVE THAT SHE ASKED SOME SERIOUS QUESTIONS AND RAISED SOME IMPORTANT INFORMATION LAST NIGHT. YOU KNOW, SO THE QUESTION IS, WHY DIDN’T SHE QUIT IMMEDIATELY WHEN SHE FELT THE PRESSURE? IT SEEMS TO ME THAT SHE STAYED IN THE JOB FROM THE LAST PART OF DECEMBER TO THE FIRST PART OF JANUARY BECAUSE SHE HAD REASON TO BELIEVE THAT SHE HAD WON THE ARGUMENT. THEY HAD COME AT HER AND COME AT HER AND COME AT HER AND COME AT HER AND SAID YOU HAVE TO DO THIS AND SHE SAID, NO. THEN SHE WENT HOME TO CHRISTMAS. IT WASN’T UNTIL THE FIRST WEEK IN JANUARY THAT THEY TOLD HER THAT SHE WAS MOVING. WHY DIDN’T SHE QUIT DURING THOSE 15 DAYS? WELL, BECAUSE IT WAS THE HOLIDAYS.>>Ian: LET’S FINISH WITH THIS AND MAYBE 30 SECONDS FROM EACH OF YOU, BEGINNING WITH YOU, PAUL PAUL. WHAT SHOULD THE LIBERALS DO, WHAT CAN THE LIBERALS DO, TO REPAIR THE DAMAGE, ESPECIALLY OVER THE NEXT WEEK OR SO?>>I WOULD ADVISE THEM AGAINST FURTHER ROUNDS OF IN-FIGHTING. THE FORMER A.G. MADE ALLEGATIONS ABOUT A DOZEN PEOPLE. IF THEY DID NOT HOLD THOSE MEETINGS, IF THEY WERE NOT IN THOSE ROOMS, THEN THEY SHOULD SAY SO. AND IF THEY HAVE RECORDS THAT SUGGEST THEY SPOKE IN A DIFFERENT TONE OR WITH DIFFERENT CONTENT, THEN THEY’RE FREE TO CONTEST THAT. IT SOUNDS LIKE SHE’S GOT THEM DEAD TO RIGHTS. AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE THIS GOVERNMENT AND THIS PRIME MINISTER TO LOOK INSIDE. WHY WERE YOU SO DISINGENUOUS OR SO WRONG ON WHAT WAS PLAINLY SUCH A MAJOR ISSUE FOR YOU AND FOR EVERYBODY WORKING FOR YOU? WHY CAN’T YOU TELL CANADIANS WHAT YOU’RE DOING IN THERE?>>Ian: ANDREW?>>I AGREE THAT THE ONLY THING THAT WILL SAVE THEM, IF IT WILL SAVE THEM, IS TRANSPARENCY. THERE’S NO PERCENTAGES ANYMORE IN THE STONEWALLING STRATEGY. IT HASN’T WORKED FOR THEM, IT’S NOT GOING TO WORK FOR THEM. THAT I THINK THAT THERE WILL BE SOME OFFICIALS IN THAT GOVERNMENT WHO SHOULD BE POLISHING UP THEIR RESUMES AND WHETHER THAT WILL INCLUDE THE PRIME MINISTER, PROBABLY NOT, BUT I THINK THAT THERE WILL BE OTHER PEOPLE WHO WILL BE DEPARTING.>>Ian: AND, CHANTAL, LAST WORD TO YOU.>>I EXPECT THAT WE’LL HEAR A REPEAT OF THE CLERK’S INITIAL TESTIMONY. I WAS STRUCK TODAY BY THE FACT THAT — IN THE HOUSE THAT NO ONE QUESTIONED THE — THE BARE FACTS. EVERYONE IS TRYING TO SET THEIR SIGHTS ON INTERPRETATIONS SO I’M NOT SO SURE THAT YOU CAN MOUNT A VERY STRONG DEFENCE THAT GOES BEYOND, REQUEST DO YOU BELIEVE HER, OR DO YOU FIND THE PRIME MINISTER MORE CREDIBLE? BUT I DO THINK THAT THEY NEED TO PUT THE PRIME MINISTER IN A SETTING — MAYBE NOT THE COMMITTEE — WHERE HE DOES ANSWER MORE FULLY THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE PUT TO HIM. AND IN A WAY THAT SHOWS SOMETHING BEYOND CODE WORDS.>>Ian: IT’S BEEN ANOTHER INCREDIBLE WEEK AND A STORY THAT KEEPS ON SURPRISING US. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU. AND BEFORE WE GO SURE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE “AT ISSUE” PODCAST FOR EXTRA CONTENT. THIS WEEK WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THOSE FEDERAL BY-ELECTIONS AND LOOK FOR IT ON iTUNES AND ANY MAJOR PODCAST APP AND ON OUR WEBSITE AT cbcnews.ca/thenational.>>Adrienne: UP NEXT ON “THE NATIONAL,” WHY IS MEGHAN MARKLE THE TARGET OF ONLINE TROLLS? WE’LL LOOK AT THE EFFORTS TO COUNTERACT ALL OF THAT HATE.>>THINK, WOULD YOU SAY THAT IN (*) [Cheers and Applause]>>Adrienne: WHETHER IT’S WILL AND KATE TENDING BAR IN BELFAST OR HARRY AND MEGHAN TRYING LOCAL CUISINE IN MOROCCO, AS USUAL THE YOUNG ROYALS DREW CROWDS OF FANS THIS WEEK. THEIR PERSONAL APPEAL IS AMONG THE FAMILY’S GREATEST ASSET. IN FACT, A RECENT POLL FOUND THAT PRINCE HARRY IS NOW THE MOST POPULAR ROYAL OF ALL TIME, ECLIPSING EVEN THE QUEEN. BUT WHILE HIS WIFE SCORED HIGHLY TOO, MEGHAN MARKLE HAS ALSO BECOME A MAGNET FOR ABUSE. OUR KAYLA HOUNSELL EXAMINES THE GROWING CAMPAIGN OF HATE AND WHAT’S BEING DONE TO FIGHT IT.>>MEGHAN! MEGHAN! MEGHAN!>>Reporter: SINCE MARRYING INTO THE ROYAL FAMILY MEGHAN MARKLE HAS BECOME ONE OF THE MOST WATCHED WOMEN IN THE WORLD. HER EVERY MOVE IS UNDER SCRUTINY. BUT NOW, AT LEAST ONLINE, IT’S TURNED FROM A GENERAL INTEREST IN THE NEW ROYAL TO UNPLEASANT, DISTASTEFUL AND RACIST COMMENTS. IS IT MY IMAGINATION OR DOES MEGHAN MARKLE ALL OF A SUDDEN LOOK LIKE SHE’S TRYING TO BE BLACKER, TWEETS ONE PERSON. POSTS SHOW THAT MARKLE IS CARRYING BANANAS ON HER HEAD AND PIT THE DUCHESS OF SUSSEX AND THE DUCHESS OF CAMBRIDGE AGAINST ONE ANOTHER. AND THE ONLINE HATRED TOWARDS THE DUCHESS OF SUSSEX IS GROWING IN BOTH VOLUME AND VICIOUSNESS. SO HELP US TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE’RE LOOKING AT HERE.>>SO THIS IS OUR BUSIEST SCREENS AND THEY HELP US TO VISUALIZE THE DATA THAT WE HAVE.>>Reporter: GEMMA JOYCE IS A SOCIAL DATA JOURNALIST. SHE NOTICED SO MUCH NASTINESS ABOUT MEGHAN MARKLE ONLINE THAT SHE DECIDED TO DIG INTO THE VITRIOL TO SEE WHO’S SAYING WHAT.>>I MEAN, THERE’S NO SHORTAGE OF NEGATIVE THINGS THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING AND THERE’S A LOT OF JUST NASTINESS.>>Reporter: THE MOST POPULAR HASHTAG IS #MEGXIT, THEY WANT MEGHAN MARKLE TO LEAVE THE WAY THAT BRITAIN IS LEAVING THE EUROPEAN UNION. THIS GRAPH SHOWS HOW THAT CONVERSATION HAS GROWN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR. AND THERE’S #MOONBUMP, WHICH TARGETS MEGHAN’S BABY BUMP.>>THE THEORY GOING AROUND THAT SHE’S FAKING HER PREG NANCY, WHICH MAY SOUND MAD, BUT THERE’S ALL KINDS OF PROOF THAT PEOPLE ARE SHARING ONLINE AND THESE PICTURES WITH FOLDING OF HER FABRIC AND STUFF LIKE THAT.>>Reporter: THE DUCHESS AND PRINCE HARRY ARE EXPECTING THEIR FIRST CHILD THIS SPRING. THE DATA SHOWS THAT 80% OF THE NEGATIVITY TOWARDS MEGHAN IS COMING FROM WOMEN AND THE MAJORITY ARE NOT FROM THE U.K.>>AS YOU CAN SEE THE U.S. IS A HUGE DRIVER OF THAT CONVERSATION. THE U.K. IS JUST AFTER THAT AND I THINK THAT NUMBER THREE IS CANADA.>>Reporter: “HELLO” MAGAZINE WHICH COVERS THE ROYALS HEAVILY NOTICED THE CRUELTY ON THEIR OWN SOCIAL CHANNELS.>>INDEED, IT’S A VERY SORRY STATE OF AFFAIRS.>>Reporter: WHEN KENSINGTON PALACE REVEALED THAT THEY’RE SPENDING HOURS EVERY WEEK TRYING TO DELETE THE POSTS, “HELLO “LAUNCHED “HELLO TO KINDNESS.”>>WOULD YOU SAY THAT IN PUBLIC? IF YOU WOULDN’T, THEN DON’T WRITE IT HIDING BEHIND YOUR COMPUTER SCREEN. WE ARE A FAMILY MAGAZINE AND WE WANT PEOPLE JUST TO BE NICE TO EACH OTHER.>>Reporter: THE CAMPAIGN HAS DRAWN SUPPORT FROM BIG NAMES INCLUDING SARAH FERGUSON, THE DUCHESS OF YORK. SHE WROTE THAT PEOPLE TRIED TO PORTRAY HER AND THE LATE PRINCESS DIANA AS RIVALS ALTHOUGH THEY NEVER REALLY FELT THAT WAY. THE HATE SPEWED ONLINE IS ONE THING BUT THERE HAS ALSO BEEN CRITICISM OF MEGHAN MARKLE’S TREATMENT BY THE BRITISH PRESS.>>MEGHAN IS BLACK AND SHE’S BEEN DIVORCED AND SHE’S BEEN AN INDEPENDENT WOMAN AND I THINK THAT PEOPLE FIND THAT THREATENING.>>WE HAVE SEEN HOW IT ENDS, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENED TO DIANA.>>JUST GIVE THEM SOME PEACE. I MEAN, SHE’S EXPECTING A BABY.>>Reporter: INDEED THERE’S BEEN A LOT OF COVERAGE RANGING FROM STORIES ABOUT THE DUCHESS BEING DIFFICULT TO WORK FOR, TO THE FEUD BETWEEN MEGHAN AND HER DAD AND HER PRICEY BABY SHOWER WITH FRIENDS IN NEW YORK CITY. IT PROMPTED HER BEST FRIENDS TO OPEN UP TO “PEOPLE” MAGAZINE, ALBEIT ANONYMOUSLY, DEFENDING HER AS “A WONDERFUL PERSON.” GEORGE CLOONEY ALSO CAME TO HER DEFENCE AND SAYING THAT THE DUCHESS IS PURSUED AND VILIFIED THE WAY THAT DIANA WAS.>>I DON’T THINK THAT IT’S AVERTLY NEGATIVE AND I DON’T THINK THAT IT’S BEEN DISPROPORTIONATE.>>Reporter: THIS ROYAL CORRESPONDENT SAYS THAT TIMES HAVE CHANGED AND THE COMPARISON TO DIANA IS UNFAIR. SHE POINTS OUT THAT THE ROYALS ARE SUBSIDIZED BY TAXPAYERS AND PLAY AN OFFICIAL ROLE.>>LARGELY I THINK THAT FLEET STREET SEES ITSELF AS A CRITICAL FRIEND OF THE ROYALS. IF THEY DO GREAT THINGS, LET’S CELEBRATE THEM. IF THEY MAKE MISTAKES LET’S HIGHLIGHT THEM.>>Reporter: BUT “HELLO” HAS TAKEN A DIFFERENT STAND. THE MAGAZINE IS UNAPOLOGETICALLY REFUSING TO REPORT ANY NEGATIVE STORIES ABOUT THE MARKLE FAMILY.>>WHEN WE HEARD THAT IT WAS UPSETTING TO THE DUCHESS OF SUSSEX, WE TOOK AN EDITORIAL JUDGMENT AS WE’RE ALLOWED TO DO, AND NOT TO PUT FORWARD ANY OF IT AND WE WILL STAND BY THIS DECISION.>>Reporter: GEMMA JOYCE POINTS OUT THAT WHILE THERE’S A LOT OF ONLINE ABUSE THERE ARE MEGHAN SUPPORTERS. THEY HAVE A HASHTAG TOO, THEY’RE THE “MEGULATORS.”>>A LOT OF PEOPLE DO SUPPORT MEGHAN, SO IT’S NOT THAT THE TROLLS ARE REALLY WINNING. AND AT THE SAME TIME JUST LOOKING AT THE KIND OF HATRED AROUND IT IS QUITE DEPRESSING, REALLY.>>Reporter: WHILE THERE ARE EFFORTS TO STOP AND TO DELETE HURTFUL POSTS, THEY’RE NO MATCH WITH THE EASE AND THE RAPID SPEED OF SOCIAL MEDIA. KAYLA HOUNSELL, CBC NEWS, LONDON.>>Ian: NEXT ON “THE NATIONAL,” 13 YEARS, FIVE LETTERS, TWO GIRLS AND ONE FANTASTIC COINCIDENCE. WE’LL TELL YOU ABOUT AN UNLIKELY REUNION IN OUR “MOMENT.”>>I HAD AN URGE TO ASK HER, I FEEL LIKE I KNOW YOU. AND WHERE ARE YOU FROM? LIKE ALL OF THESE>>This glove is brown. My shoes are black. What exactly are we doing here?>>We’re going to practice.>>Practice what? You told me I was just a body in a field.>>Hey, Patrick.>>Hey, Mr. Rose.>>Whoa!>>What are you doing?>>Well, what are you doing? * * [theme] * >>Ian: 13 YEARS AGO TWO LITTLE GIRLS BONDED OVER A SHARED LOVE OF SPORT AND SCIENCE. THEY WERE PEN PALS — ONE IN ONTARIO AND THE OTHER IN BELIZE. EVENTUALLY THOUGH THEY GREW UP AND GREW APART. THAT IS, UNTIL THE ODDEST OF COINCIDENCES. THEY BOTH ENDED UP ON THE SAME SMALL UNIVERSITY CAMPUS IN NEWFOUNDLAND IN THE SAME CLASS WITH THE SAME MASTERS ADVISOR. THE STORY OF THEIR REUNION AND THEIR FRIENDSHIP IS TONIGHT’S “MOMENT.”>>I WENT UP TO HER AND I SAID ARE YOU FROM BELIZE? AND I WENT HOME AND I FOUND MY LETTERS AND I BROUGHT THEM IN TO HER.>>OH, I WAS COMPLETELY SHOCKED, ESPECIALLY WHEN SHE BROUGHT ME THE LETTERS THAT I HAD WROTE.>>I STILL HAVE MY LETTERS FROM MELISSA.>>IT JUST BROUGHT BACK THE MEMORIES VERY VIVIDLY. AND I REMEMBER SITTING IN THE CLASS AND ACTUALLY COLOURING AND DRAWING OUT THOSE PICTURES.>>I WAS IN MISSISSAUGA WHEN I WROTE THOSE LETTERS AND SHE WAS IN BELIZE AND WE BOTH ENDED UP IN NEWFOUNDLAND. LIKE, WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF THAT? WE SEE EACH OTHER PRETTY MUCH EVERY OTHER DAY AND WE HANG OUT WITH THE SAME PEOPLE. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME SORTS OF SCIENCE.>>WE’RE IN THE SAME CLASSES AND, I MEAN, IT’S REALLY EASY TO BE A FRIEND WITH HEATHER, SHE’S SUCH A SWEET PERSON.>>YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN FATE.>>I DEFINITELY BELIEVE THAT IT’S FATE.>>13 YEARS LATER WE’RE THE CLOSEST WE HAVE EVER BEEN.>>Adrienne: OKAY, I AM SO IN LOVE WITH THIS STORY. I KNOW THAT WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT FOR A WHILE. ALL WEEK WE HAD STORIES THAT COULD BE MOVIES OF THE WEEK, SO SCRIPT WRITERS OUT THERE, START WRITING THIS ONE. AND I KNOW THAT YOU AND I DON’T ENTIRELY AGREE ON THIS PART OF IT — I HAPPEN TO BELIEVE THAT SOMETIMES THINGS ARE MEANT TO BE. YOU KNOW, HEATHER HAD AN INSTINCT THAT SHE RECOGNISED THAT NAME. SHE ASKED ABOUT IT AND IT CAME TO BE. AND I DON’T KNOW, SOMETIMES I THINK THAT THERE’S A REASON FOR IT.>>Ian: I LOVE THE FACT AND YOU AND I HAVE SO MUCH IN COMMON. YOU KNOW, THE OVERLAPPING TRAITS. BUT THERE ARE A FEW VERY DISTINCT DIFFERENCES. AND I LOVE THAT YOU EMBRACE THE ROMANCE OF FATE. BUT TO ME, UNFORTUNATELY, I’M STUCK WITH THE WORLD OF CHANCE. I THINK THAT IT WAS JUST AGAINST ALL ODDS JUST A RANDOM CHANCE. BUT IT’S STILL A BEAUTIFUL STORY WITH A BEAUTIFUL END.>>Adrienne: AND I LOVE YOU ANYWAY.>>Ian: ME TOO YOU. THAT IS “THE NATIONAL” FOR FEBRUARY 28th. GOODNIGHT.>>Adrienne: GOODNIGHT.